Wednesday, June 29, 2005

Comparison of Black Civil Rights and Gay Civil Rights


This is what I get for scanning blogs. I ran across one blog that had the following:

[�There is today a great debate over what, if any rights the same sex couples are entitled to. If indeed, these people are to be singled out, how shall we decide what rights the same sex couple is entitled to and which ones they should be denied? Is there any logical argument for the denial of basic rights to any group of citizens in the United States? There is a large history of debate over the last one hundred fifty years of the subject in regards to civil rights for Black Americans and women, in particular.

Blacks were denied the most basic civil rights in the United States for over half of the nineteenth and twentieth century. Segregation existed in every aspect of daily life. Separate Hotels for Blacks and Whites, separate drinking fountains, dining areas and schools. Women could not vote in the United States until 1920. The point is that these groups continued to be denied what appears today to be the most basic right available to all citizens today.�]

ANOTHER QUOTE I FOUND:
["I am tired of sitting at the back of the bus," said one 37-year-old California man who recently went to San Francisco to "marry" his male partner. "Rosa Parks didn't wait for the courts to tell her it was all right to ride in the front of the bus,"]

Look Snoop is a reasonable guy for the most part, but on the same sex marriage thing this really pisses me off. In case some of you are pro same sex marriage folk, and in conversations with friends you have made the comparison let me peep you on what most of us black folk think about this issue:

**When has a multitude of gays been kidnapped and made to be slaves for 400 years? When was it illegal to teach gays to read and write? When were there ever any gay Jim Crow laws? When were gays required to say "sah" or "ma'am" to straight people? When were there separated gay and straight water fountains? In public buildings, when were there separate entrances for gays and straights, the gays going out the back? In theaters, have gays been forced to sit in the balcony while the straights sit on the main floor? When were there segregated lunch counters based on sexual preference? When was a gay required to give up their seat on a bus to a straight person? Who was the gay Rosa Parks? Were gays at the bottom of the economic social structure for decades? Where were the poor gay ghettos? When have gays gotten worse jobs and lower pay than straight people? When were there separate-but-equal schools for gays and straights?***

**Black civil rights leaders have also expressed strong condemnation of attempts to hijack the civil rights movement. "We find the gay community's attempt to tie their pursuit of special rights based on their behavior to the civil rights movement of the 1960s and 1970s abhorrent," Bishop Andrew Merritt of Straight Gate Ministries and several other Detroit pastors said recently in a statement supporting traditional marriage. "Being black is not a lifestyle choice."**

This comparison of the two issues has pissed me off since my days growing up in the Bay Area and the �were here, were queer� chants in the Gay rights parades in San Francisco.
Blacks during the civil rights era did not go down the street half naked, grabbing each others ass, wearing feathers, leather straps and other shit.
Part of gaining respect of mainstream society is to earn respect not to rub your lifestyle in the faces of the general public. AND high jacking the civil right era to make your case is not a smart strategy. If in 2008 the left continues to make the civil rights comparison more and more blacks will certainly lean more towards the Republican Party. You democrats know very well that if you lose what was a guaranteed base of support in the black vote your screwed.

10 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I am tired of sitting at the back of the bus"

So am I. I'm tired of scissors that don't work. I'm tired of ink smearing every time I try to write something. I'm tired of not being able to find a desk that's usable, and being forced to use the "Southpaw" desks.

I am sick of putting up with can openers, pencil sharpeners, vegetable peelers, cameras, corkscrews, stringed instruments, and power tools that are made assuming that I'm what I'm not. I'm sick of being second-class just because I'm a minority.

I'm tired of being called "gauche", "sinister", "underhanded", and traveling "the left-hand path". My grandparents were forced, with left hands bound, to fit into a right-handed world. I deserve reparations for every time the government forcibly inhibited their natural calligraphic tendencies.

The only way to make life fair is to have the courts declare an end to this discrimination.

I didn't ask to be born left-handed; all I demand is my lefts...er, rights.

EL B

29.6.05  
Anonymous Stacey said...

I can present a "case" for every situation you presented where a gay/lesbian human being was withheld basic rights. I'd advise you become educated about "gay rights" and the similarities instead of trying to develop differences. When was the last time you were denied the right to see your dying parnter/lover/wife because you weren't allowed to marry? When was the last time your family heirs marched in and divided everything your partner/lover/wife built over the past 20 years together with you because the other person in their life had no basic legal rights? We are not whiney, much ado about nothing, people in this battle. We are being denied our basic equal rights as partners/wives/husbands of other Americans.

29.6.05  
Blogger Sally said...

You make note of the stamps that are racist yet you do not see the similarity between the close minded bigotedness attitude you express and the same attitudes that you denounce..

29.6.05  
Blogger Snoop said...

To Sally/Stacey

[close minded bigotedness]

[I can present a "case" for every situation you presented where a gay/lesbian human being was withheld basic rights. I'd advise you become educated about "gay rights]

If you read the post I said the following:
(let me peep you on what most of us black folk think about this issue:)

I’m just telling you how the vast majority (NOT ALL) blacks feel about the issue. Most are not going to talk about to white folks about it but MANY particularly older blacks who went through the shit they did years ago HATE the comparison.

It has been stated numerous times, but the bottom line is this, YOU CAN HIDE THE FACT YOU ARE GAY!!

I do not want to get into WHO HAD IT WORSE argument. But the main point is this issue is becoming a SIGNIFICANT issue particularly within the black church circle.
The democratic party base will continue to erode if it is thrown up in the face of blacks, AND if you keep making the comparison.
Dont get mad at Snoop for pointing it out.
Go find an old black man or woman, particularly one who for example was beaten on and attacked by dogs on the Edmond Pettus Bridge in Selma and convince them of your argument.

30.6.05  
Anonymous mamat said...

FIRST, LET ME SAY I HAVE OFFICIATED AT ONE GAY WEDDING AND WOULD DO MORE IF NEED BE. HOWEVER, I ALSO BELIEVE THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT - SO WITH THAT IN MIND - IT DOES NOT HELP ANY CAUSE TO MAKE OVERLY BROAD STATEMENTS BASED ON FLAWED INFORMATION.

BELOW ARE LEGAL WAYS AROUND THE ISSUES RAISED. NOT THE SAME AS BEING LEGAL SPOUSES, BUT THE RESULTS COMPLAINED OF CAN BE AMELIORATED IF NOT ELIMINATED ENTIRELY. JUST TAKES KNOW-HOW AND WILL POWER.

When was the last time you were denied the right to see your dying parnter/lover/wife because you weren't allowed to marry?
HOW TO FIX LEGALLY = DO A DURABLE POWER OF ATTORNEY (MUTUALLY). THAT GIVES LEGAL RIGHTS OVER & ABOVE MERE FAMILY (EVEN A SPOUSE). THE DOCTORS AND HOSPITAL HAVE TO HONOR CERTAIN LEGAL DOCUMENTS IN ALL THE STATES - AND WITH COMPETENT LEGAL ASSISTANCE, YOU CAN BE READY FOR A LOT OF THESE SITUATIONS, WITHOUT BEING "LEGALLY MARRIED"

When was the last time your family heirs marched in and divided everything your partner/lover/wife built over the past 20 years together with you because the other person in their life had no basic legal rights?

HOW TO FIX LEGALLY = DO MUTUAL WILLS SILLY. FAMILY BY BLOOD HAVE NO RIGHT TO ANYTHING IF YOUR WILL IS IN PLACE AND PROVIDES THAT YOUR PARTNER IS YOUR LEGAL HEIR. We are not whiney, much ado about nothing, people in this battle. We are being denied our basic equal rights as partners/wives/husbands of other Americans.

DENIED OUR BASIC RIGHTS? FROM WHENCE DO RIGHTS COME FROM? THE CONSTITUTION? FEDERAL LAWS? STATE LAWS? GOD?

WHILE I HAVE GREAT SYMPATHY WITH ANY PERSON WHO IS HURT BY OTHERS, THERE REALLY ARE FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO THINK A "RIGHT" IS CREATED ANY TIME THEY SAY IT IS. IN ORDER TO LEGALLY VIOLATE A RIGHT, THERE MUST BE SOME LEGAL SOURCE PROVIDING THAT RIGHT (IN THE FIRST PLACE).

THE CIVIL RIGHT'S MOVEMENT FINALLY RESULTED IN CHANGES IN THE COUNTRY BECAUSE ENOUGH OF SOCIETY SYMPATHIZED THAT THEY WERE WILLING/ABLE TO RISK GOING TO JAIL TO GET THINGS CHANGED. THAT MEANT LITTLE OLD WHITE AND BLACK LADIES GOING TO JAIL BECAUSE THE CURRENT LAWS WERE CONSIDERED (BY THE MAJORITY) TO BE UNJUST.

THAT IS THE MODEL THAT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED. UNTIL/UNLESS THE GAYS AND LESBIANS IN THIS COUNTRY GAIN ENOUGH SUPPORT (FROM MAINSTREAM SOCIETY) TO GET THAT KIND OF BROAD PROTEST GOING, IT IS UNLIKELY THAT THE LAWS IN QUESTION WILL GET CHANGED.

SO MY ADVICE? COME OUT COME OUT COME OUT. BE NORMAL. BE PROUD. BE RESPECTED. ONCE MAINSTREAM AMERICA REALIZES HOW MANY REALLY WONDERFUL PEOPLE ARE GAY OR LESBIAN (AND AREN'T FLAMING OR FLAGRANT), AND HOW BADLY THEY ARE BEING TREATED FOR WHAT IS NOT A CHOICE IN MOST CASES (BUT RATHER HOW A PERSON IS BORN), THERE MAY FINALLY BE ENOUGH IMPETUS TO GET MINDS AND THEN LAWS CHANGED.

30.6.05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought i might answer some of your questions since
you were asking.

you asked, "When has a multitude of gays been
kidnapped and made to be slaves for 400 years?"

Gay people were rounded up "kidnapped" with the jews
during Hitlers Germany where They were made to work
and eventually put to death in the concentration
camps.

Gay people have had to hide for thousands of years in
fear of persecution. What happens if you didnt hide?
Until recent times, in most cultures if it were found
out that you were gay, the penalty was prison or
death. If you did hide? fear is also a prison.
Black people know all about that and so do gays.

you asked, "When was it illegal to teach gays to read
and write?"

I heard one of the reasons it was illegal to teach
black people to read and write was because it would
give them power. power to rise up agaist the people
that were oppresing them.

Oppresion takes on many different forms. Black
people were and are oppressed in different and in
someways the same as gay people but "OPPRESSION IS
OPPRESSION"

you asked, "When were there ever any gay Jim Crow
laws?"

There were and still are lots of anti gay laws on the
books.

you asked, "When were gays required to say "sah" or
"ma'am" to straight people?"

pretty demeaning isn't it? like having the word fag
burned on your front lawn.

"When were there separated gay and straight water
fountains?"

if people could have known who was gay and who was
straght, there probably would have been seperate gay
and straight fountains. after all, Who wants to share
a water fountain with a dirty faggot?

you asked, "In theaters, have gays been forced to sit
in the balcony while the straights sit on the main
floor?"

no, but it might have been better to have a seperate
gay section were they can be themselves without fear.
for example, holding hands just like the black and
white folks could without fear of getting spit on,
beat up and thrown out of the theater.

you asked, " When were there segregated lunch counters
based on sexual preference?" see above

you asked, "When was a gay required to give up their
seat on a bus to a straight person?"

Which right would you rather have? the right to sit
anywhere on the bus. or the right to marry the person
you love?

you asked, "Who was the gay Rosa Parks?" his name is
Harvey Milk.

you asked, "Were gays at the bottom of the economic
social structure for decades?"

Talk to The young gay people who were disowned by
their families, kicked out of their homes and are
living on the street because of being who they are.

you asked, "Where were the poor gay ghettos?"

type in "gay ghetto" on google. there are 14,200
entries.

you asked,"When have gays gotten worse jobs and lower
pay than straight people?"

the next time you are interviewing for a job, tell
them you are gay and you will be surprised how many
jobs you don't get.

you asked, "When were there separate-but-equal schools
for gays and straights?..."

That would have been a blessing to have seperate
schools. Schools can be a living hell for kids that
are gay. open, blatant hate directed at them every
day.

you said, "Blacks during the civil rights era did not
go down the street half naked, grabbing each others
ass, wearing feathers, leather straps and other shit."

no, they were too busy eating watermellon and fried
chicken, dancing with shirley temple and raping white
women.

stereotypes are dangerous period. I am surprised you
are using them.

for every ass grabbing, feather wearing, leather
strapped gay there are 1000 suit and tie, polo shirt,
tee shirt wearing gays.

You see and talk to gay people everyday and you don't
even know it.

there is not that much difference between black
people and white people or a gay person and a straight
person. we are all people, we all have feelings and
we all deserve to be treated equally.

gay people and black people have both been persecuted,
beat down on, shamed for who we are and it is not
right.

There is nothing wrong with being who you are and
being proud of it. Black power and Gay power are the
same thing. Its the power to be proud of who you are
and stand up to the people who are beating you down.
The power to say that i am not going to take this
anymore! just like Rosa Parks did.

1.7.05  
Blogger Snoop said...

ATTENTION!

Ok Snoop is going to give this post top billing.
I hope those who come to my little world her weigh in.
FIRST A PORTION OF DUDES POST:

“for every ass grabbing, feather wearing, leather
strapped gay there are 1000 suit and tie, polo shirt,
tee shirt wearing gays.
You see and talk to gay people everyday and you don't
even know it.
there is not that much difference between black
people and white people or a gay person and a straight
person. we are all people, we all have feelings and
we all deserve to be treated equally.”

Ok you folks who come to The Snoop Zone better peep something real quick. I am a lot more tolerant that you might think. I’m pretty conservative on most things but I will listen and do understand. But when I post something and you mother fuckers don’t get the main point of my post it gonna piss me off.
I’m not a great writer, Snoops going to make mistakes but if you CAN get the gist of what I’m conveying you can save us some time.
In the post below “Comparison of Black Civil Rights and Gay Civil Rights” my main point was to convey to folk that blacks in general right or wrong DON’T LIKE THE FUCKEN COMPARISON. Gays use comparisons of the civil right struggle of blacks to further their agenda.
MOST blacks don’t agree with same sex marriage. NOT JUST SNOOP. In the barber shops, beauty shops and the black churches this is becoming a rallying cry. Continuing to compare the two issues is counterproductive to your cause!

The democratic party WILL lose this base of support of they continue to rub it in the faces of black America This was the point of my post.

When I said: “Blacks during the civil rights era did not go down the street half naked, grabbing each others ass, wearing feathers, leather straps and other shit.” IT WAS THE FUCKEN TRUTH I DID NOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP YOU FUCK! Go and do a damm google photo search. Look at the photo below.
Then you add this shit:

“no, they were too busy eating watermellon and fried chicken, dancing with shirley temple and raping white women.”

You punk ass gays can take a hike.
There are a lot of you white gay bastards who discriminate and deny opportunities to minorities while at the same time using the struggle of minorities to further your cause.
You mother fuckers own businesses, run human resources departments, populate many of the institutions in our country and YOU can hide you fucks. So don’t give me your sob stories.
And don’t come her to my goddam blog and act like its just me saying these things.
A lot more people have the opinion I simply say it.
Just like any other blog if you don’t like what you see then step the fuck off.
I’m not anti gay but fucks like you give me cause to be.
Next time at least have a link to you blog to peep your opinion you son of a bitch!

Have a good weekend!
Time to take extra meds..... or have a nice drink.
Sincerely, Snoop

2.7.05  
Blogger MALIBU JONES said...

For the most part, Snoop is kinda crazy, but he has gotten this right, there is no comparison between the Civil Rights Movement and the Gay movement, This isn't even a Liberal vs Conservative issue, it's really f'ed up that Gays would even consider this,
"Being black is not a lifestyle choice."**
Remember that, the color of the skin cannot change, but, any given day, Gays can wear a suit, tie, dress and blend in the work force, but at 6 or 7, they can change clothes, go to a gay club and be happy. A person of color, black, hispanic, whomever does not have that luxury, what you see is what you get, all day, every day. The term "out of the closet" to me means that they were hiding their true identity until they came out of the closet, and apparently they were not comfortable with themselves, in their own skin. A person of color has to be confortable in their skin, if they aren't, they have others issued not identified. Now also a Singer Donnie McClurken stated he was gay, but thru prayer he is no longer a gay man. Now I don't know if this is true or not, but can a black man or hispanic man say, thru prayer I am no longer black, no longer hispanic, please. I know men that were married, had children with their wives, got divorces, then all of a sudden decide they are gay, and get a partner. You can't decide one day you're not black, the shit does not rub off. So to all of the Gays that feel they identify blacks, they are full of shit. Oh I am a black, Caucasion, Puerto Rican Cherokee (kinda like Tiger Woods)

7.7.05  
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14.3.07  

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